: From the PHB AD&D1 first printing (the demon idol is on the cover) : de_script_ion of the Fighter/MU dual class near the top of the second column. : Says you can carry (but not wear) armor and resort to their use if the need arises and not be penalized in respect to experience as a magic user .(PHB, revised, 1979).  Please, continue to read the sentence. 8) : As I remember they were restricted to leather armor only because they were : forest trackers and woodsman.  The restriction was explained that chainmail : and plate were so noisy that it would scare game away.  This was very : similar to the reason theives didn't wear anything heavier than leather : either: it simply made too much racket to perform certain abilities. Nope.  Just re-read the de_script_ion.  No such limitation is mentioned. Nor is there such in the 2nd Ed.  Certain abilities are unusable and/or penalized if in more than studded leather armor, but it's not prohibited.

In article < This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it (Bruce L Grubb) writes: It does clearly state that a fighter/magic-user cannot cast spells in armor as elven fighter/mages. The Ranger is a sub-class of the fighter class, so unless noted otherwise, it functions exactly as a fighter. Since no mention was made of spell casting in armor for the ranger specifically, it falls under the same rules as the fighter which is *quite* clear. Except that the Druid a cleric subclass can use a sickle which is an EDGED weapon while normally clerics cannot use edged weapons of -any- kind. Whoa - stop RIGHT THERE - once again you are making a reference to 1st edition.  In second edition, the word subclass is not used.  Cleric and Druid are both PRIEST classes, but neither is a subcategory of the other.

unless noted otherwise, it functions exactly as a fighter. Since no mention was made of spell casting in armor for the ranger specifically, it falls under the same rules as the fighter which is *quite* clear. Except that the Druid a cleric subclass can use a sickle which is an EDGED weapon while normally clerics cannot use edged weapons of -any- kind. Whoa - stop RIGHT THERE - once again you are making a reference to 1st edition.  In second edition, the word subclass is not used.  Cleric and Druid are both PRIEST classes, but neither is a subcategory of the other. What is David K. Folger calling the Ranger? A SUB-CLASS of the fighter. Since you are saying sub class do NOT exist in AD&D1 then there is NO argument to keep a AD&D1 Ranger from casting MU spells in armor!

reading several AD&D1 modules where a MU spells was one of the options for a Ranger who was wearing leather armor to use against the party. In second edition, the word subclass is not used.  Cleric and Druid are both PRIEST classes, but neither is a subcategory of the other. Illrelevent as David K. Folger and I are talking about AD&D1 and CLEARLY say so.

However, according to confirmation theory, in increases the chance that there isn't a flaw. Bad use of statistics.  If someone has shown a flaw, the proof, or disproof of that flaw doesn't depend on probablility (among other flaws). This is not a reply to this message per se, but a reply to the thread as a whole. Deciding whether not mages can or cannot wear armor, being dual or multi-class, or whatnot, is a function of determining exactly how magic works on YOUR world. Although the spell de_script_ions may clearly list that a spell requires a Verbal, Somatic, and/or a Material component, the Somatic (movement) portions of the spell are not listed. Depending on the working of magic on your campaign world, (as I have never seen them defined anywhere else in detail, although I have not had full exposure to the wealth of material about the subject), it may be that the somatics of spells are quite intricate and/or quite delicate. Though a mage may not be hindered too badly with armor, the delicate weave that is a spell may be unbalanced if the timing of a wrist twist or the twitch of a shoulder is thrown off. This is not saying that mages could not get away with it, and you might, if this whole is a problem, allow mages to cast lower (2nd or 3rd and below) while wearing armor, but disallowing higher due to the intricacies of the spell somatics itself. Also, this doesn't take into account spells that have no somatic component, in which case the use of armor would not logically be able to be disallowed. Then we run into a second point (sorry to be so long and boring about this) which was published by Dragon Magazine concerning the nature of _meta_l armors, and why the presence of quantities of _meta_l about the mage would disrupt delicate spell energies, due to the highly reactive nature of _meta_l to energy (as we know in the everyday world). This, however, does not take into account leather armor (although it WOULD probably disllow studded leather), as leather armor does not contain significant amounts of _meta_l to hinder spell energy flow. Dragon then added this second contingency stating that spells are as much about mental flow as physical flow, and that a mage cannot wear armor, as it signifies psychological doubts as to the power of magic and its effectiveness, and these psychological doubts destroy the mages ability to cast. This, actually, was a rather flat and thin argument. I think it comes down to game balance, and personally, I've used a combination of the magical spell energies disrupted by large quantities of _meta_l surrounding the person and the intricate nature of spell casting to give a nice balance to low level spell casters. I still disallow spell casting above 2nd level spells in any armor, but it allows the mage from levels 1-4 to build up some hit points and a good spell repetoire before having to brave the world alone, and I still limit the mage to weapons a mage would be forced to use, although I expand on that quite a bit by allowing some Wu Jen weapons and anything else that requires relatively little skill and strength to wield. And that is almost all I have to say about that. *Xian*